Salt Lake City Department of Public Utilities Director Laura Briefer discusses the scale and scope of Salt Lake City Department of Public Utilities. We also discuss the core principles informing her leadership of the Department and priorities for 21st century municipal supplier. Hosted by Emily Lewis.
Brian Lebrecht, President of Clyde Snow 0:02
This podcast is brought to you by the law firm of Clyde Snow and Sessions based in Salt Lake City with offices in Oregon and California. For over 65 years Clyde Snow has represented clients throughout the West. Clyde Snow: Serious About Solutions.
Emily Lewis, Host 0:21
Hello, and welcome to Ripple Effect, a podcast putting water into context. I’m Emily Lewis, your host, and I’m a water attorney here in Salt Lake City, Utah, practicing creative solutions to today’s and tomorrow’s water problems. Welcome to the conversation.
Okay, here we are on our Ripple Effect podcast number two, as I said earlier, this is going to be a podcast focused on talking to people in the water community, talking about big infrastructure, structural things in Utah and really be a forum to explore kind of new and cool ideas in the water space. And so today I have with me, Laura Briefer, who is the Head of Salt Lake City Department of Public Utilities. And so, correct?
Laura Briefer, Guest 1:12
That is correct.
Emily Lewis 1:15
And so I wanted to invite Laura here, first of all, because I respect her so much for all the wonderful work she’s done in her position. And second, I think this city and the listeners would benefit from hearing more about what public utilities does, and then also kind of what the broader plans Laura may have for our water infrastructure management in the coming years.
Laura Briefer 1:35
Great, well, thank you so much, Emily, and it’s really good to be here. And likewise, I’ve been a big admirer of you and all that you have done, especially this last legislative session, and all the work you’ve done on water banking, and everything else. You have quite the vision for our systems. And I really appreciate that, and it’s fun to work with you. So I am the director of Salt Lake City Department of Public Utilities. We are a municipal department. So, I work for the Salt Lake City mayor and the City Council. And really, our overarching mission as a department is to serve our community and protect our environment. That’s our mission statement. That is the legacy and institutional culture of my department, which my department’s also about 176 years old, one of the oldest retail water providers, west of the Mississippi River. And so we actually started out by providing water, but we currently now provide storm water and sanitary sewer services to the city and most recently also acquired the street lighting system as an enterprise too. So we, as a water, sewer, stormwater and street lighting provider have a lot of regulatory mandates. We have to – we recognize that our work is vital to public health and the environment, as well as our economy and the quality of life of our citizens. And we are responsible for ensuring that we follow major federal statutes and laws that the state, which has primacy, implements, and that’s the Safe Drinking Water Act, the Clean Water Act, and others. We have a large role in flood control and drainage. And really, we just see ourselves as a public health agency in many, many respects. We also own and operate a very large network of water infrastructure.
Emily Lewis 3:47
Do you have wood pipes in your system?
Laura Briefer 3:49
Not anymore. But if anybody wants to come to my office to see what wood pipes looked like when they were in our system, we have a few samples. But thankfully, all of the wooden pipes have been removed and replaced with much more updated versions of themselves.
Emily Lewis 4:06
That’s my favorite. I love going into your office and seeing it because it just is such a tangible thing. You’re like, Oh my gosh, this is how they used to deliver water, literally in wood pipes.
Laura Briefer 4:13
Yeah. And, and really, I mean, we’ve learned a lot from our history of delivering water in terms of the collection, the treatment, and the distribution of our water supplies. And today we own and maintain a very large network of public infrastructure. We’ve got three drinking water treatment plants that are fully under the city’s ownership and control. Those are the drinking water plants at the mouth of Big Cottonwood Canyon up in Parleys Canyon near Mountain Del Reservoir and in City Creek Canyon about three miles up from the bottom. We also have dams and canals and reservoirs. We’ve got a sewer treatment plant which we’re in the process of reconstructing in parts meet new clean, clean water act requirements. And in part because it’s 55 years old and needs to be rebuilt, we’ve also got 1000s of miles of water distribution pipelines, sewer collection pipelines and storm drain pipeline. So we have a lot of responsibility and in terms of the main maintenance and repair and rehabilitation of our existing infrastructure. Plus we have a growing community and so we are also adopting new infrastructure that gets extended for new development.
Emily Lewis 5:37
And then do so would you explain a little about your footprint as well, because you also serve people outside Salt Lake City boundaries as well, correct?
Laura Briefer 5:42
Yes, that’s, that’s right. So outside of Salt Lake City. So maybe I should step back a little bit and talk about why that is.
Emily Lewis 5:49
Laura Briefer 5:50
So when the Salt Lake Valley was beginning to be developed, and Salt Lake City was providing water, in the more northern part of the Salt Lake Valley, where Salt Lake City proper is right now, the unincorporated portions of Salt Lake County were also under development. And so there was a lot of pressure to extend water systems to areas that were then outside of the city, and the city had agreed to extend those systems. And I think that the expectation at the time was that all those areas would be annexed into Salt Lake City. Now that that didn’t happen, and we now have a lot of more newly incorporated cities that were incorporated on top of an existing water system. So today, our service area includes not only Salt Lake City, but also portions of the city of Millcreek, Holladay, Cottonwood Heights, and little bits of Murray, Midvale, and South Salt Lake. So we’ve had various annexations on top of an existing water system.
Emily Lewis 6:59
Yeah, I recently moved from sugarhouse in Salt Lake City to Cottonwood Heights. And I’m like, I still get my same bill.
Laura Briefer 7:06
And actually, there there is an economy of scale or a system that big our service area is 141 square miles. And the 360,000 people that benefit from the water we provide also benefit from a lot of resiliency that’s built into the system. So you know, we have water coming from Little Cottonwood, Big Cottonwood, Parleys. City Creek, we have groundwater resources. And it’s in a very connected system, that, you know, if, for instance, we lost a source or a critical piece of infrastructure, we have some resiliency built into the system so that we wouldn’t experience any significant water disruptions, which is super important when you think about – we’ve got a number of hospitals on our system. We’ve got manufacturing facilities, we’ve got people that depend on having access to clean water, 24 hours, seven days a week.
Emily Lewis 8:07
Yeah, I think people forget what the scale of the job of a municipal supplier is, because it is 24 hours a day. And you have so many people on your system and in all the various because I mean, a municipal water right could be for any new innumerable things. You know, it’s not just an irrigation right or a domestic right, but you provide water for, you know, our schools or institutions.
Laura Briefer 8:28
Yeah, a lot of a lot of dependency and water really is the lifeblood of a thriving community. I mean, you have to have that, right.
Emily Lewis 8:37
Laura Briefer 8:38
And as a municipality, it is a traditional municipal service as well. And there’s a lot that goes into that in terms of accountability, in terms of making sure that we provide a reliable and affordable service and that we meet all of the clean water and drinking water regulations.
Emily Lewis 9:02
No small task.
Laura Briefer 9:03
It’s not a small task, but it’s very, it’s a very fun task. And I did also want to mention, you know, and we talked a little bit about the scale of the operation, but a little bit from on the organizational and finance effort. So Salt Lake City Public Utilities is a department of Salt Lake City, but it’s it’s not part of the general fund of the city. It’s it’s called an enterprise fund. What that means is we are a fee for service organization. We don’t collect property taxes to fund our infrastructure and operations. Instead, we develop a cost of service analysis so we know what it costs to provide these water services and then we charge that cost of service to our customers and our residents. There’s a standard in terms of how you develop your rates that are based on cost of service, and a lot of philosophy and priority and policy and what a rate structure looks like. And so for instance, conservation as part of a rate structure or affordability as part of a rate structure. And so we develop the rates and based on cost of service for our community, and we we look at them once every five years or so to make sure that they’re accurate. The scale of the work that we do right now leads us to a total annual budget of about $200 to $300 million, about half of which is devoted to infrastructure. And so it’s really important that we, we get that cost of service and our rate setting, right. And that we evaluate the different policy questions that come up in a rate structure. And so that is another large part of being a municipal water supplier is, you know, we, we touch, we touch our residents so closely, you know, we operate the water system from the mountains to the top, but what people really see is what’s coming out of their tap or what’s being flushed down the toilet.
Emily Lewis 11:16
Yeah, andwhat comes in their mailbox.
Laura Briefer 11:18
And what comes in their mailbox in terms of a bill. And so it’s, it’s something that we try to really engage our community and our citizens on.
And so you have, you know, your budget of $200 or $300 million, half the infrastructure. You know, I also think that one thing that we have a lot of discussions about, kinda like the public face of water in the state, but like, all the people who make that happen, can you explain about kind of, like the size of your staff? Oh, yeah, that’s, that’s great. So I love my staff. And –
Emily Lewis 11:49
I love your stuff, too.
Laura Briefer 11:50
They’re great. So, so we have about 430 employees, or what we call full time equivalent employees, some summer seasonals. But we, we have such a wide variety of skill sets and our employees. So, you know, for instance, on the administrative side, we’ve got Certified Public Accountants and financial strategists, a number of MBAs, we have a lot of engineers, we’ve got folks with legal backgrounds and public policy backgrounds, a lot of scientists, we’ve got a very large staff devoted to the operations and maintenance of the system. And they have to go through pretty rigorous training to become certified operators of the system and pass tests and, and get their certifications, updated every so often. It’s a very professional staff, who work very, very hard. And our staff are just incredibly passionate about providing the public service that they’re providing, as well it’s throughout our department.
Emily Lewis 13:03
I didn’t realize your staff was that big. That’s a pretty big staff.
Laura Briefer 13:06
Emily Lewis 13:06
Because I guess, for us, we deal with such a small component from the legal side in terms of like, the more on the administrative side. But yeah, you know, that’s a fair amount of jobs for the Salt Lake City economy, like good, very interesting high level job
Laura Briefer 13:20
Yeah, it is, it is. It is a big staff. And we’ve got a lot of people who are attracted to the work, because the bottom line of the work is that you are working for the public, and you’re protecting public health, and you’re protecting the environment, and people really like to do that.
Emily Lewis 13:37
Yeah. Well, that’s kind of a great segue, because one of the things we talked about today is, you know, kind of like, what your vision for public utilities is, because I think that that’s a pretty exciting thing is, you know, being in a position of decision making, you kind of do get to set the track have kind of like, you know, obviously with consulting with the council and the mayor, but, you know, set a track for kind of like how best we provide the number of services that you’re you’re tasked with providing to the community.
Laura Briefer 14:06
So yeah, so maybe I should also say my background, I have an environmental science background. That was my undergraduate work in college, and then I have a Master’s in Public Administration. And I, my career path has taken me into many different environmental fields. And so I worked for quite a long time as an environmental consultant actually investigating and cleaning up hazardous materials sites, Superfund type projects. So I was on the end of the spectrum of environmental work where, you know, I saw how how bad things could go in terms of having to remediate and the cost of that and the public impact of that. I also when I was a consultant worked to help people avoid doing that. And I, a lot of my clients hired me to do these environmental management systems where we would audit their factory or their practices and make sure that they were following rules and protecting public health and the environment. And so I kind of found my way into municipal service by accident, and worked for a while at the town of Alta high up in the watersheds of Little Cottonwood Canyon.
Emily Lewis 15:37
Absolutely the most simple place to be for water –
Laura Briefer 15:41
Emily Lewis 15:41
Nothing complicated about it. It’s a controversial-
Laura Briefer 15:44
It’s a small town, but it it sort of has a lot going on there. And, and there are a lot of people passionate about that place, including me. So we, we did a lot of great work there. I also worked for a an environmental nonprofit, more of like a Land Trust type of organization. And so, coming to work with public utilities, about 12 years ago, my key responsibilities were what was in this class of special projects. And so one of the things that I had to start working on was climate change in how we can better predict impacts of climate change on our water systems, and how we can adapt to that and help mitigate it. And that, that really made me start thinking about things from a much more holistic standpoint, and, and really, from a standpoint of sustainability and resiliency. And so today, as the director of this department, I’ve sort of looked at three key categories of topics, I guess, that I think are really important for us as we now and as we move forward. And one is just a general set of priorities under environmental and public health. And so that could include that, you know, issues such as using water resources wisely, and making sure we steward them for current and future generations. Making sure we’re protecting water quality, making sure we’re protecting and improving the integrity of our ecosystems in our watershed from the top of the Wasatch, to the Great Salt Lake, and then doing our part to reduce air and greenhouse gas emissions as well. And so those are sort of key topics. And we could look at them as a triple bottom line too. But then another piece of this is the built infrastructure. And, you know, our infrastructure system also needs to maintain resiliency needs to be able to recover from disasters and emergencies, and adapt to a changing climate. And so I have a number of priorities in order to implement that. And then the final piece of this is something that we call JEDI. And that’s justice, equity, diversity and inclusion. And some may ask, “well, what does water have to do with Jedi? What does that – What does water have to do with justice and inclusion?” And for me, that means that we ensure that there’s access to clean and reliable water supplies for all of our residents, that we build in affordability and fairness in the rate structure, that we’re equitable in all of our services, so that one part of the city doesn’t receive less service than another part or that they don’t perceive that, that we’re efficient in our use of public funds, and we’re transparent in our decision making. And so those are kind of the three categories that I sort of judge our progress by and that, you know, many of the things that we do and the decisions that we make, that we’re sort of comparing to those ideals.
Emily Lewis 19:07
I think those sound like really three really good pillars for a pretty strong organization.
Laura Briefer 19:11
Thank you. If you have anything you’d like to add another pillar – I am open to suggestions.
Emily Lewis 19:19
Yes, I do love being open to suggestions. Yes. You get the you get the best insight from people you don’t expect I found and, you know, here at Clyde Snow we’re involved in a number of kind of collaborative water tasks and matters and it’s always the person you don’t expect to just has that one piece of information that you didn’t think about that you’re like, oh, my goodness, this is really key for making decisions going forward.
Laura Briefer 19:43
Yes, we, we hear from our constituents, I try to get to community council meetings in our city and I like to sit down with many of the constituents throughout our service area, even in other cities to that we serve and I do always learn to – either learn something new or learn to apply a different lens to something that we’re already doing. And that to me is incredibly valuable.
Emily Lewis 20:09
Yeah, so I kind of did have some questions, you know, because what I think about when I think about your operation, and this is, you know, from my outside kind of looking in, it’s just one just the scale of the task in front of you, I feel like you have a lot of things on your plate, you’ve got potential development for the inland port, you’ve got a growing population, we’ve got, you know, climate variability that we have that is going to affect our water supply. What do you think, and this is kind of a broader, broader scale of kind of like management for these big questions, you know, like, what do you think we can do is like a water community to kind of help us be adaptable and agile to kind of like meeting those conditions as we go forward? You know, like, how you see yourself kind of like implementing those three pillars, you know, you think about how hard problems, how are we going to implement really lasting solutions?
Laura Briefer 21:06
Yeah, that’s, that’s a really good question. Yeah, and, you know, one way to look at this is, from the water perspective, our timeframe, isn’t, isn’t always immediate, I mean, it might be immediate, if we have a water line break, or something happening all at once, but a lot of the work that we do, you have to take the long view, and, and so planning is really important, but not planning for just planning sake, and making sure that you’re being very informed on the planning. And today, that means looking at our future with a lot of different perspectives, public policy, political, regulatory, legal, and the perspectives of our citizens, the changing values of our citizens. And then there, there are other sort of physical conditions on the system to look at to and you know, using science and technology, to, to really evaluate the baseline conditions of your system, but then how it might be impacted. Over time, and so, in my public administration studies, we call that a little bit of muddling through, you know, so it’s not a bad thing, to muddle through it, really, what you’re trying to do is take a whole bunch of different perspectives, and putting them together and seeing the connections and coming out with some rational and good decisions at the end of the day. And, and also knowing that, like we talked about earlier, I’m really serious about that, but being open to new inputs and, and new suggestions and new perspectives. So I think, I think for water providers, it’s really important for us to embrace this really informed planning, and this interaction with the community that we serve.
Emily Lewis 23:12
I think, you know, another take on that as maybe a concept that I’ve been kind of trying to think about how we apply and broader context, is this like iterative thinking, that iterative thinking, and being, you know, what, what is really what do we need for the moment that allows us to get to a solution that is scalable, and buildable, if it’s successful, and then kind of like doing these trial balloons of of, you know, innovative thinking, but because I think sometimes too, water such a unique, unique feature, and that, I mean, we have hard infrastructure, you know, those are big pieces of equipment that have to be paid for over long periods of time. And figuring out how you adapt the big built system to change the technology, changing science, I think, is probably one of the biggest tasks in front of like, suppliers.
Laura Briefer 24:00
That’s a pretty big task. I think another big task is the natural infrastructure as well, because our natural infrastructure is being impacted in by many different things and sort of evolving and changing all the time too. And I’ll give an example. You know, all of our water runs off the land somewhere, right and into the streams and into our groundwater. And for us in Salt Lake City, you know, about 90% of our water supplies, on average come from surface water sources that emanate from the watersheds of the Wasatch and Uintah mountains. And those mountains in their environment are subject to change and vulnerability as our climate changes as our land use changes. And, so it the landscape where that water comes from is completely related to the built infrastructure, the built infrastructure was created to take advantage of what’s coming down the system naturally, right?
Emily Lewis 25:09
There’s a reason our reservoirs are in the place they are,
Laura Briefer 25:12
There’s a reason why a certain treatment technology is used because it matches, the the quality of the water and the volume of the water that’s coming down a system, as our natural systems change, it’s really important for us to be monitoring that and to be understanding how that change is going to cause us to make changes in our built infrastructure. Stormwater is another example. You know, when we’re seeing more of these intense monsoonal storms, that could you know, I think we’ve had a couple 200 year storm events, but not 200 years apart. And I, you know, they can tend to overwhelm a municipal system. And so we need to start thinking about that that relationship, again, between the natural and built infrastructure, that’s a key component.
Emily Lewis 26:04
And so do you think like the, you know, for example, I hear that, and I think, maybe we need to rethink land use planning to put more bio swells or, you know, like, I’m not a planner. So this is not my background. But you know, that’s kind of the first thing that comes to my mind. And so do you think that we’re doing a good job of kind of like building the right inroads for discussion to think more integrated about how we do things?
Laura Briefer 26:27
I think I think we are getting there. But what you said about land use planning is something that’s been very much on my mind that, that I think we do have some silos between land use planning and water planning. And in part, it’s the scale of planning, that’s different. It’s maybe not having the right people at the table all the time to talk about, you know, how this land use decision might impact water, or vice versa. And, so I’m trying to think a lot about how we and the planning community can be – have, I think, have a more integrated conversation. I just completed the 40 year plan out to 2060 for Salt Lake city’s water supplies, and a big part of the impetus of that was changes in land use planning, and land use in general. So increase densification on our system. Yes, the Northwest quadrant, and inland part of our area, the the new state prison. All of those things affect the demand on our system, the water demand, in terms of the quantity in terms of the seasonality of use. And that, in turn affects the infrastructure over time.
Emily Lewis 27:50
Yeah. So do you think that – so I listen to a lot of podcasts, hence why I thought this would be a good venue for Utah, you need to have a space to explore some of these concepts in more of a local level. But one of the podcasts that I listened to a while back that I actually thought was the most impactful that I listened to in a while was talking about more like scalable modular developments. And, this particular one was a lady who did I think it’s called bio cycle. I don’t know, don’t quote me on that. But it was basically like she built in the footprint of a shipping container, these kind of onsite water treatment facilities that she would put next to breweries so that basically the brewery would do like a pretreatment before they put it into the system, the city system, or kind of like more neighborhood scale facilities, and so is that something that Salt Lake City is – how do you see that playing a role in development, the future?
Laura Briefer 28:48
I definitely on the the sewer and stormwater side, I think that there is a lot of opportunity for on site systems to sort of better treat the water before it actually gets into the storm drain or the sewer collection system. And we are looking at pilot projects on the stormwater system for example. That are that’s using natural infrastructure, green infrastructure to settle out things like nutrients before they go into the system on nonpoint source types of situations. So just regular urban runoff. But for point sources, I think that there’s probably some opportunity as well, that we can work with our community on.
Emily Lewis 29:37
Yeah. And plus, it’s a good avenue to invite them into the conversation of the solution making because I think that that is the biggest thing is like people have to feel ownership about the project. Otherwise, it’s not a successful project.
Laura Briefer 29:47
That’s right. Thank you. I’m gonna write down your suggestion there. Yeah, yeah. So I think there’s some great opportunities and and I’ll just say, you know, we’re we’re also trying to look at the entire water system. So from the top of the Wasatch Mountains down to the Great Salt Lake, we have a, my department has a part to play in our residents have a part to play in all parts of that system. And so, so on a bigger, we’re kind of looking at the bigger scale of how we make certain land use decisions, or how we make certain water management decisions to benefit to create multiple benefits on the system, whether it’s, you know, resolving TMDL issues on some of our waterways, or habitat issues or in resiliency in our water resources.
Emily Lewis 30:49
It’s good thing. Um, well, those are kind of my main questions. But if you have anything else that you want to talk about that you kind of, I think it is like a priority of the system or a priority you have for going in the future kind of what you know, anything that you think that would be helpful for, the broader community to know or understand or to plant a seed for thought.
Laura Briefer 31:15
One thing that’s on my mind right now, I’ve been reading, there have been a few interesting books that have emerged since the Flint, Michigan crisis, and the release of a movie Dark Waters. And then the book that the movie is based on is called Exposure. There’s another book out there called Troubled Waters. And essentially, these are kind of taking a broad look and evaluating the state of our water systems and water management in in the country. And I think as a nation, it’s important to recognize that municipal water providers, and some other water providers, too, are running into a time when a lot of infrastructure needs to be replaced or rehabilitated. And the funding is difficult to come up with the the capacity of a community to pay for all of that is probably not there in a lot of cases. So for us, for instance, I’ve identified at least a billion dollars of projects that I’d like to do, but of course, we couldn’t do this all at once, but. So I really think that it’s important for our elected officials, and on all levels, federal, state and local, to really start thinking about and strategizing about the state of our water resources and water infrastructure. I think that water is oftentimes out of sight, out of mind, and can be taken for granted. And because of that, the priority, I think we could all be better advocates of prioritizing the work that needs to be done on our water systems. Yeah, not just the built but the natural parts too.
Emily Lewis 33:21
Yeah, I think just like general fluency, because I do think that in recent years, and you know, I’m relatively young in my career, but even just in the last couple years, I think that because of Flint, because of these kind of high profile things, the conversation has started about water, but directly in a way that is informative in like reading water fluency, because I think that is there is still like these large disconnects about like what it takes to actually get something to your tap
Laura Briefer 33:49
And that’s a really good way of putting it is water fluency, and taking the time to learn about what that takes. It can be an incredibly jargony and technical thing to talk about. So, I’ve been thinking a lot about how do I how do I translate it in to different audiences and, and help us all have a better understanding and to make better community decisions on these things? And, you know, I’ve had these thoughts about bringing a task force to visit our congressional representatives, right, folks saying “Hey, we’ve got a billion dollars in water needs and all these emerging contaminants PFAS and you know, pharmaceuticals and not a lot of guidance on how to deal with those. We could use their help, we could use help on the state level and of course, on the local levels, too.
Emily Lewis 34:47
Yeah, I have a personal story that I like about Salt Lake City, which is what I like to call water right “Numero Uno.” And so disclosure is Clyde Snow assisted Salt Lake City with a lot of their water user claims in the Utah Lake adjudication.
Laura Briefer 35:01
Only about 200 of them.
Emily Lewis 35:02
Yeah, only about 200.
Laura Briefer 35:05
The first one dating back to July 23 1847.
Emily Lewis 35:08
Yes, exactly. I think we should just make a poster child story of the story of this water. right and then the funny thing that’s so bad about it is this water right “Numero Uno” is disguised under this extremely nondescript, you know, water jacket number. It’s like, 5710872 or something. Like, I feel like it needs a one. I just want to give it a one.
Laura Briefer 35:29
The first water right in Utah.
Emily Lewis 35:31
Laura Briefer 35:32
And, you know, there’s so much rich history beyond that to think about. If you think about the diligence date on that water right of July 23, 1847 we wanted to make sure we got that right that the advance party came in and started diverting that water. And yeah, there’s a lot of history I’ve run into and that adjudications, so much great cultural history, intertwined with the way that water was viewed and managed and revered in so many ways. There’s so much to learn about Utah history through the lens of all of that research.
Emily Lewis 36:13
Yeah. I think though, I’ve been thinking about generally just kind of mining those stories, because they’re still relevant today, you know, like people, people love them. So yeah, kind of bringing, like, one of the lectures I gave in my class that I teach at the law school was called contemporary history, because that’s what it really, it’s the same. It’s like what we’re talking about, you know, that happened over 150 years ago is like a very relevant consideration for what we’re talking about today. Like, how do we bring water safely to the people?
Laura Briefer 36:41
That’s right. Yeah.
Emily Lewis 36:43
Yeah, great. Well, thank you for joining me Laura Briefer.
Laura Briefer 36:48
This was great Emily Lewis.
Emily Lewis 36:49
Yeah, we’ll have I want to have you back and we’ll talk about maybe some brass tacks specifics. I want to hear about like, I’d love to hear your thoughts on financing. I’d love to show off in specific projects. And so yeah, hopefully you can be a regular contributor.
Laura Briefer 37:02
I would love that. Thank you.
Emily Lewis 37:04
Brian Lebrecht 37:20
Nothing said in this podcast should be taken as providing legal advice or as establishing an attorney client relationship with you or anyone else. Thank you for listening.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai